Quick Hits Featuring Some Basic Ideas and A Question
Tell the Republicans to go home. They hate government - they should get out of it, go home, start their own businesses and get off the public dole. We don't need more people who claim to hate government attempting to run it. I would hope you wouldn't be a doctor if you hated sick people or a vet if your hobby was kicking puppies. You think privatization is the way to go? Good - get out there and stop taking public money and earn your own damn dimes. Same for you, you fucking contractors who profit government contracts, but support Conservative ideas. Shoo.
Note to the trained seals who boo at McCain/Palin rallies when they hear the word taxes: What are you - teenagers? You want all the rights of citizenship and none of the responsibilities. Grow up or don't send your kids to the public school, don't call the police or the fire department, don't visit the library, don't visit the sports stadium, have fun swimming across that river and enjoy yourself as you blaze new paths through the wilderness because those roads? Forget it!
Remember to boil your dirty water and grow your own food and make your own stuff because all the things you go to the store to buy get there using roads that are paid for by taxes. We know how much you hate taxes.....
It's going to be tough, but hey - this is what you wanted. You are on your own. Make do.
In case anyone is still confused about who really pushed us over the precipice into this economic crisis.
For anyone who really thinks that abstinence is better than knowledge and privacy.
And then there's this question - I heard a the following true story and I want to hear what you think.
A small business owner received an email telling him that Barack Obama was going to win the election. The email went on to describe the changes the sender, a McCain supporter, foresaw under an Obama presidency. The small business owner took that information, made some calculations and decided that he would have to lay off six workers to maintain his bottom line. But who to fire?
After careful consideration, he decided that he would go out to his business's parking lot and see whose cars had Obama bumper stickers. Those people would be the first to be fired.
What do you think of that as a business strategy?
DCup out.
79 Erect Nipples:
Hello, Me Darlin' Woman.
That's one fukked up business strateegy, but typical of those who know not how to research on their own. Am I surpirsed....afraid not!
PERFECT! PERFECT! PERFECT! PERFECT!
That is absolute perfection. I'm going to link to it or steal your words or something, but this must reach every single bone-head GOP voter out there. Love you!!!!
If that story is true and not apocryphal, I'd say those employees have a good lawsuit on their hands.
don't visit the library
Yes, PLEEEEEEEEASE don't visit the library. I hate helping you commies, so don't even get me started on fucking wingnuts. No, we don't have Tom Clancy.
Heh, kirby beat me to it.
THANK YOU! I'm so sick of hearing that taxes are bad from people who get paid with our taxes! What do people think their taxes are going for, exactly? You want an infrastructure and basic government services, where do you think the money's coming from?
Perfect post.
Where the h**l do the ya-hoos think their paychecks, limos with drivers, $150K wardrobes, and earmarks come from? Oh; that's right, the Eternal Money Tree called the Taxpayer. The little people who are constantly hosed and obligated to feed the greed of this administration endlessly, like a mama bird feed her nestlings. We the taxpayer should thank the Repubs for giving us something to do. Right.
I'll bet firing people for their political beliefs is more common than we'll ever know. Employers just slap anther reason on it and call it good.
Great post. I'm all stoked now.
Great post.
I hope that employee story was not about you...
As a business strategy it sucks. However, I don't doubt its accuracy.
And whenever I talk to people who go all batshit crazy over taxes they start off about "waste."
Waste? How about the salaries of those in power?
I tend to think more about taxes as they relate to silly things like roads, infrastructure, schools - you know, the whack ass stuff I concern myself with.
Grrrrrrrr.
Keep hitting that nail on the head girl. They hate government that works for everybody, they only want it to work for them.
Despicable.
SO well said! Great post. And the thing that makes me crazy is when McCain or Palin trot out their talking point about Obama wanting to "spread the wealth around" and everybody boos....who do they think the wealth is going to be spread to? It would benefit THEM. The reason McCain doesn't like it is HE's the one who would pay more taxes! These people are not the ones who would lose money if Obama actually did "spread the wealth around." They boo against their own self-interest. They are morons!
Great post, DCup! And indeed if this story is true, I think we can add another person to the blame-list of why we're economically fucked. You'd have to be a complete moron to do things that way, and usually business owners aren't quite that stupid.
So, my question is this: When we are all homeless, broke, bankrupt and without a rudder, we're expected to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps and take a shower in the old trickle-down?
... but.... but.... someday I'm going to be the rich guy..... and then..... oh, yeah.... right now I can't pay my Mastercard bill..... NEVERMIND....
I see that I have apparently been baned from this site as my previous post has been removed. At least be honest and let others know that are doing this. I guess there is no room for disagreement.
But while this post remains I will ask one more question...why has Obama's tax cut for those making less than $250K now been lowered to those making $150K--according to Joe Biden himself?
Jonah - Please email me at dcup84atgmaildotcom to discuss. Thanks.
I say that guy is making a huge mistake. He'll need those pumpkins when the economy picks back up after Obama is elected.
Interesting, if long read:
From: Cory Miller cory@centerlinemanufacturing.com
Mr. Obama,
Given the uproar about the simple question asked you by Joe the plumber, and the persecution that has been heaped on him because he dared to question you, I find myself motivated to say a few things to you myself. While Joe aspires to start a business someday, I already have started not one, but 4 businesses. But first, let me introduce myself. You can call me “Cory the well driller”. I am a 54-year-old high school graduate. I didn’t go to college like you, I was too ready to go “conquer the world” when I finished high school. 25 years ago at age 29, I started my own water well drilling business at a time when the economy here in East Texas was in a tailspin from the crash of the early 80’s oil boom. I didn’t get any help from the government, nor did I look for any. I borrowed what I could from my sister, my uncle, and even the pawnshop and managed to scrape together a homemade drill rig and a few tools to do my first job. My businesses did not start not a result of privilege. It is the result of my personal drive, personal ambition, self-discipline, self reliance, and a determination to treat my customers fairly. From the very start my business provided one other (than myself) East Texan a full time job. I couldn’t afford a backhoe the first few years (something every well drilling business had), so I and my helper had to dig the mud pits that are necessary for each and every job with hand shovels. I had to use my 10-year-old, ½-ton pickup truck for my water tank truck (normally a job for at least a 2 ton truck).
A year and a half after I started the business, I scraped together a 20% down payment to get a modest bank loan and bought a (28 year) old, worn out, slightly bigger drilling rig to allow me to drill the deeper water wells in my area. I spent the next few years drilling wells with the rig while simultaneously rebuilding it between jobs. Through these years I never knew from one month to the next if I would have any work or be able to pay the bills. I got behind on my income taxes one year, and spent the next two years paying that back (with penalty and interest) while keeping up with ongoing taxes. I got behind on my water well supply bill 2 different years (way behind the second time… $80,000.00), and spent over a year paying it back (each time) while continuing to pay for ongoing supplies C.O.D. Of course, the personal stress endured through these experiences and years is hard to measure. I do have a stent in my heart now to memorialize it all.
I spent the next 10 years developing the reputation for being the most competent and most honest water well driller in East Texas. 2 years along the way, I hired another full time employee for the drilling business so that we could provide full time water well pump service as well as the well drilling. Also, 3 years along the path, I bought a water well screen service machine from a friend, starting business # 2. 5 years later I made a business loan for $100,000.00 to build a new, higher production, computer controlled screen service machine. I had designed the machine myself, and it didn’t work out for 3 years so I had to make the loan payments without the benefit of any added income from the new machine. No government program was there to help me with the payments, or to help me sleep at night, as I lay awake wondering how I would solve my machine problems or pay my bills. Finally, after 3 years, I got the screen machine working properly, and that provided another full time job for an East Texan in the screen service business.
2 years after that, I made another business loan, this time for $250,000.00, to buy another used drilling rig and all the support equipment needed to run another, larger, drill rig. This provided another 2 full time jobs for East Texans. Again, I spent a couple of years not knowing if I had made a smart move, or a move that would bankrupt me. For the third time in 13 years, I had placed everything I owned on the line, risking everything, in order to build a business.
A couple of years into this, I came up with a bright idea for a new kind of mud pump, a fundamentally necessary pump used on water well drill rigs. I spent my entire life savings to date (just $30,000.00), building a prototype of the pump and took it to the national water well convention to show it off. Customers immediately started coming out of the woodworks to buy the pumps, but there was a problem. I had depleted my assets making the prototype, and nobody would make me a business loan to start production of the new pumps. With several deposits for pump orders in hand, and nowhere to go, I finally started applying for as many credit card as I could find and took cash withdrawals on these cards to the tune of over $150,000.00 (including modest loans from my dear sister and brother), to get this 3rd business going.
Yes, once again, I had everything hanging over the line in an effort to start another business. I had never manufactured anything, and I had to design and bring into production a complex hydraulic machine from an untested prototype to a reliable production model (in six months). How many nights I lay awake wondering if I had just made the paramount mistake of my life I cannot tell you, but there were plenty. I managed to get the pumps into production, which immediately created another 2 full time jobs in East Texas. Some of the models in the first year suffered from quality issues due to the poor workmanship of one of my key suppliers, so an employee and I (another East Texan employed) had to drive across the country to repair customers’ pumps, practically from coast to coast. I stood behind the product, and made payments to all the credit cards that had financed me (and my brother and sister). I spent the next 5 years improving and refining the product, building a reputation for the pump and the company, working to get the pump into drill rig manufacturers’ product lines, and paying back credit cards. During all this time I continued to manage a growing water well business that was now operating 3 drill rig crews, and 2 well service crews. Also, the screen service business continued to grow. No government programs were there to help me, Mr. Obama, but that’s ok, I didn’t expect any, nor did I want any. I was too busy fighting to make success happen to sit around waiting for the government to help me.
Now, we have been manufacturing the mud pumps for 7 years, my combined businesses employ 32 full time employees, and distribute $5,000,000.00 annually through the local economy. Now, just 4 months ago I borrowed $1,254,000.00, purchasing computer controlled machining equipment to start my 4th business, a production machine shop. The machine shop will serve the mud pump company so that we can better manufacture our pumps that are being shipped worldwide. Of course, the machine shop will also do work for outside companies as well. This has already produced 2 more full time jobs, and 2 more should develop out of it in the next few months. This should work out, but if it doesn’t it will be because you, and the other professional politicians like yourself, will have destroyed our country’s’ (and the world) economy with your meddling with mortgage loan programs through your liberal manipulation and intimidation of loaning institutions to make sure that unqualified borrowers could get mortgages. You see, at the very time when I couldn’t get a business loan to get my mud pumps into production, you were working with Acorn and the Community Reinvestment Act programs to make sure that unqualified borrowers could buy homes with no down payment, and even no credit or worse yet, bad credit. Even the infamous, liberal, Ninja loans (No Income, No Job or Assets). While these unqualified borrowers were enjoying unrealistically low interest rates, I was paying 22% to 24% interest on the credit cards that I had used to provide me the funds for the mud pump business that has created jobs for more East Texans. It’s funny, because after 25 years of turning almost every dime of extra money back into my businesses to grow them, it has been only in the last two years that I have finally made enough money to be able to put a little away for retirement, and now the value of that has dropped 40% because of the policies you and your ilk have perpetrated on our country.
You see, Mr. Obama, I’m the guy you intend to raise taxes on. I’m the guy who has spent 25 years toiling and sweating, fretting and fighting, stressing and risking, to build a business and get ahead. I’m the guy who has been on the very edge of bankruptcy more than a dozen times over the last 25 years, and all the while creating more and more jobs for East Texans who didn’t want to take a risk, and wouldn’t demand from themselves what I have demanded from myself. I’m the guy you characterize as “the Americans who can afford it the most” that you believe should be taxed more to provide income redistribution “to spread the wealth” to those who have never toiled, sweated, fretted, fought, stressed, or risked anything. You want to characterize me as someone who has enjoyed a life of privilege and who needs to pay a higher percentage of my income than those who have bought into your entitlement culture. I resent you, Mr. Obama, as I resent all who want to use class warfare as a tool to advance their political career. What’s worse, each year more Americans buy into your liberal entitlement culture, and turn to the government for their hope of a better life instead of themselves. Liberals are succeeding through more than 40 years of collaborative effort between the predominant liberal media, and liberal indoctrination programs in the public school systems across our land.
What is so terribly sad about this is this. America was made great by people who embraced the one-time American culture of self-reliance, self-motivation, self-determination, self-discipline, personal betterment, and hard work, risk taking. A culture built around the concept that success was in reach on every able bodied American who would strive for it. Each year that less Americans embrace that culture, we all descend together. We descend down the socialist path that has brought country after country ultimately to bitter and unremarkable states. If you and your liberal comrades in the media and school systems would spend half as much effort cultivating a culture of can-do across America as you do cultivating your entitlement culture, we could see Americans at large embracing the conviction that they can elevate themselves through personal betterment, personal achievement, and self reliance. You see, when people embrace such ideals, they act on them. When people act on such ideals, they succeed. All of America could find herself elevating instead of deteriorating. But that would eliminate the need for liberal politicians, wouldn’t it, Mr. Obama? The country would not need you if the country was convinced that problem solving was best left with individuals instead of the government. You and all your liberal comrades have got a vested interested in creating a dependent class in our country. It is the very business of liberals to create an ever-expanding dependence on government. What’s remarkable is that you, who have never produced a job in your life, are going to tax me to take more of my money and give it to people who wouldn’t need my money if they would get off their entitlement mentality asses and apply themselves at work, demand more from themselves, and quit looking to liberal politicians to raise their station in life.
You see, I know because I’ve had them work for me before. Hundreds of them over these 25 years. People who simply will not show up to work on time. People who just will not work 5 days in a week, much less, 6 days. People always looking for a way to put less effort out. People who actually tell me that they would do more if I just would first pay them more. People who take off work to sit in government offices to apply to get free government handouts (gee, I wonder how things would have turned out for them if they had spent that time earning money and pleasing their employer?). You see, all of this comes from your entitlement mentality culture.
Oh, I know you will say I am uncompassionate. Sorry, Mr. Obama, wrong again. You see, I’ve seen what the average percentage of your income has been given to charities over the years of 2000 to 2004 (ignoring the years you started running for office - can you pronounce “politically motivated”); you averaged of less than 1% annually. And your running mate, Joe Biden, averaged less than ¼% of his annual income in charitable contributions over the last 10 years. Like so many liberals, the two of you want to give to the needy, just as long as it is someone else’s money you are giving to them. I won’t say what I have given to charities over the last 25 years, but the percentage is several times more than you or Joe Biden (don’t you just hate goggle?). Tell me again how you feel my pain.
In short, Mr. Obama, your political philosophies represent everything that is wrong with our country. You represent the culture of government dependence instead of self-reliance; Entitlement mentality instead of personal achievement; Penalization of the successful to reward the unmotivated; Political correctness instead of open mindedness and open debate. If you are successful, you may preside over the final transformation of America from being the greatest and most self-reliant culture on earth, to just another country of whiners and wimps, who sit around looking to the government to solve their problems. Like all of western Europe. All countries on the decline. All countries that, because of liberal socialistic mentalities, have a little less to offer mankind every year.
God help us…
Cory Miller
just a ordinary, extraordinary American, the way a lot of Americans used to be.
P.S. Yes, Mr. Obama, I am a real American… www.cmillerdrilling.com
"Tell the Republicans to go home. They hate government - they should get out of it, go home, start their own businesses and get off the public dole. We don't need more people who claim to hate government attempting to run it."
I love this quote.
One of my coworkers had a brief moment of clarity a couple of days into Katrina coverage. He had just visited New Orleans for the first time about 3 weeks earlier. He was dumbfounded and outraged, and I told him that this is what happens when you take people who say they hate government and then put them in charge of it.
He since reverted to straight GOP voter.
Damn, you are good, girl!! You are right on the money, and funny!!!! I thought about starting my own blog...but then I found you... you express all of my cynicism, anger, frustration and everything, so much better than I thought I could.... Fooey on my own blog... I'll keep visiting you!!!
Damn, you are good, girl!! You are right on the money, and funny!!!! I thought about starting my own blog...but then I found you... you express all of my cynicism, anger, frustration and everything, so much better than I thought I could.... Fooey on my own blog... I'll keep visiting you!!!
Don't feed the Trolls!!!!
The long read written by the well driller once again misses an essential point in the discussion about taxes and small business: if you operate a business, the salary you pay yourself is a business expense. Your money and the business's money are not the same thing. If your business takes in $4 million annually, but pays out $3,999,999 in expenses, it's going to pay business taxes on whatever its profit may be, in this case that one lonely dollar. It's not going to pay taxes on that $4 million gross. Your personal income tax will be based on what you've chosen as your salary and not on whatever the business happens to gross as a whole.
Is there any particular reason why so many people who claim to be business owners have so little understanding of basic accounting principles and/or tax law?
DCup - my 2c from afar: unless you can put an actual name to that "true small business" in your story, it is taking things down to the same level as those tax-jeering McCain supporters. i.e. scare mongering and untruths.
If it is true, well and good, but otherwise, I think it devalues the wonderful message in the first part of your post.
Just sayin, that's all...
This is a great post.
But that said, who the hell is the longwinded troll? How do they find you my dear? I say hit that old shit-can button.
Someone that longwinded needs his own blog, but is using yours. It's just rude and stupid as well. Mr Right my ass. Buy your own bit of real estate. This blog is not your property.
Isn't it ironic that Bush and the neo-cons who talk of an "ownership society" (where those who have the gold own everything) actually usurped the most federal executive power since Lincoln?
Thanks for your inciteful post - I do agree. My own dad complains bitterly about entitlement programs as he is filling out his medicare forms - geez.
As for Texas businessman - It was not the Obamas of this country who caused the currrent economic problems, but rather the greedy, more for us, good ole boy republicans who hogtied those who would regulate the banks, securities and insurance companies
You're gaining on em - keep it up :-)
I am SO FUCKING SICK of the "I got mine-fuck the rest of society" folks. Damn sick of them.
You put it all great m'dear DCup...such a way with words. ;)
capn dyke – hello! How are you?
Themom – It’s pretty scary, isn’t it?
Mnmom – Thanks! Feel free to use it.
Kirby – The story is true. And I worry about a lawsuit, too.
Randal – The commies are coming for your periodicals.
SamuraiFrog – No, you have the perfect post about this.
Kkryno – I would hope that firing people for their political beliefs is a rare as firing people for their religion, their sexual preferences, etc. but I know that’s probably not the case either. Glad to stoke you!
FranIAm – No, not me, but perhaps related…….
Dr. MVM – Yeah, it’s okay to profit from tax dollars, but provide services? Too, too wasteful.
Magdalene – That’s a great word for it.
Mauigirl – Thank you. The middle class likes to think they are rich, I guess. How sad that they don’t get it.
Dguzman – Thank you! Sadly, this business owner appears to be that stupid. What a shame for all involved.
Diva – That’s a great and funny question.
Nbratscott – Keep hoping! It may not pay the bills, but it’s better than despair.
Jonah – I understand your concerns. I’m going to trust that Obama isn’t lowering the “wealth” threshold. If he wins the election and has Democrats controlling Congress, I will use this blog to advocate that he sticks to his promises.
Ubermilf – Agreed.
Mr. Right – that’s your one gimme. From here on, please no more cut and paste. You have something to say? Please use your own words. Thanks.
Bubs – Thanks. Too bad your coworker didn’t stay in the reality-based world for long enough to see that it’s not so bad.
Giggles – Why, thank you. If you do start you own blog, please let me know!
Nbratscott – I’ve been known to take in stray cats. Is that like feeding trolls? ;-)
Nan – Good point about the differences in income and business taxes. Perhaps ignorance about such things is why so many small businesses fail?
Mountjoy – The story is true, but I like my job enough to not name names. It’s not my workplace, but that of a constituent. One of my coworkers got the email from the business owner and wanted to know what I thought of it.
Utah – Thanks, doll. I agree about Mr. Right. See my comment above.
Roger – Indeed! Yeah – they hate gov’t so much that they just had to make it stronger and bigger. I realize that many conservatives would quickly point out that BushCo. Isn’t really Conservative.
Brightside-susan – Thank you. There’s plenty of hypocrisy to go around, isn’t there?
Susan – Thanks! You know I will!
i think mr right/cory miller should use his drilling equipment to help find john mccain's lost dignity. i just hope he's careful and doesn't damage ted stevens's series of tubes.
I love those people who claim to be, "Social liberals, but fiscal conservatives." People who want everything without having to pay.
I love your analogies about not doing what you hate.
excellent post, you go girl!
I tell my hubby to tell those fucks who are republicans and yet have union jobs and union benefits to get the fuck out of there (his job on the railroad) and leave those union jobs to the democrats. stupid fuckers! they want to bitch and yet get benefits democrats fought for!
We are on the precipice of losing this wonderful experiment called the United States of America. Under Republican rule our country isn't in danger from terrorists, we are in danger of China calling in the loan.
And without 60 votes in the Senate, Congress is powerless to stop an out of control administration.
Our country truly cannot afford another four years of Republican control.
Excellent post, DCup ... to bad some simply can't see the truth.
BAC
You don't want to hide under the covers, you would miss Halloween and Daylight Savings change and...well, maybe you have a good idea after all.
Mr. Cut-and-Paste doesn't realise that if the well-driller had enough brains, he would have gotten a subsidised government small business loan, and not had all the worries about bankruptcy. He could have gone to the federal or state agencies that help people develop marketing plans -- maybe even ones that would help him sell overseas! He could have gotten government assistance with the patent. (What is a patent anyway if not a government restriction on freedom -- the freedom that a bigger business would have to steal his idea, sell it for cheaper and drive him out of business? But I guess he doesn't mind that restriction of corporate liberty, does he?
I could go on about how these stupid ideological fuckwits are full of shit, but there's no point. They'll never get it, so the only thing to tell them is "Shut the fuck up!"
There will always be some people determined to pound a nail into the wall by smashing it repeatedly with their forehead, even when they're in a room full of hammers. But hammers are for sissies, right, asshole?
Sorry, I didn't realize I was being rude. Just offering a different view point. It wont happen again. Heaven forbid a different viewpoint.
Mr. Right,
That wasn't a comment, it was your life story, as told by you. Supposidly anyway.
Are you done patting yourself on the back? Good, now as Nan said...if you do own your own business, you seem pretty stupid as far as what is a business deduction and what isn't Also what the phrase 'capital gains' means seems to be lost on you..which leads me to assume it's all a crock.
Thanks and have a great day!
Signed,
Dusty a former small business owner.
I have never been able to understand why those that say government is the problem will lie, cheat and steal to get in office of the very thing they hate!! Of course if you think government is the problem and stealing money from the people, then you would have no scruples about stealing from government or passing all that money to your friends.
Mauigirl hit the nail on the head too!!
When St. Ronnie said "Government is not the answer, government is the problem". He was actually warning us of what would happen when his party was in power!!
If this business is in a "right to work" state, there is no lawsuit to be had. The employer has no need to give any reason at all for firing whomever s/he wishes. Yay! That worked out well for the working folks, didn't it?
As for this driller person, we can make it a game. For every bit of white and/or male and/or middle class privilege he benefited from, name it and take a drink of the beverage of your choice.
Actually, I'll use up the bandwidth at my place for this. No need to pollute Politits with this. :)
This is about Federal income taxes, right? If so, you have learned well from the Obamessiah how to deflect the argument away from facts.
I like your reasons for paying Federal taxes, except for the fact that almost none of this is funded by Federal income or capital gain taxes.
public school - mostly local and should have never been given in any part to the Fed. The Dept of Education is a friggin' joke.
Police, fire department, library, sports stadium - these are all local taxes, not Federal, and are almost always sales and property taxes, not income.
swimming across that river - exactly when did the Federal government invent rivers?
Roads - a legitimate function of government paid for, in large part, by road use taxes, not income taxes. For the idiots in the crowd, road use taxes are gas taxes, tag fees, tolls, etc.
Nice article, too bad your facts are wrong.
I am not against paying taxes. I am against paying OVER HALF of my income in taxes. By the time I count ALL the taxes I pay, in addition to Federal income taxes, I pay well over half.
If this is about Federal income taxes (including cap gains) then can we please talk about the stuff those taxes actually support? Or will Obama supporters just deflect and distract from the actual facts of this topic?
Nan - your explanation only applies if the business is organized in a way (for instance a corporation) that it can seperate the income stream of the principal from the company. Most small business file taxes as a sole proprietorship or simple partnership and pay personal income taxes on all profits. Granted, this guy is probaly incoporated, but it is possible that he is not.
Dusty - learn to read, Mr. Right clearly posted the comments of someone other than himself.
Dale, Do you enjoy being a condescending jackass or is it just part of your personality?
The federal government is run with our tax monies as is Welfare, Medicare and the VA...otherwise known as entitlements. The military and defense dept enjoy using our tax monies, which means all those contractors in Iraq are getting paid with tax dollars.
What's your point Dale with the crack about Obama supporters deflecting and distracting?
Oh and Dale sweetie..I don't consider $760 Billion on education as chump change..do you? That was the Federal expenditure in 2006 on Education. :)
Dusty - name calling usually comes from people who cannot or will not add anything substantive. Et tu Dusty on the condescension ...sweetie.
You have correctly identified Federal spending of our taxes. I pointed out that the services itemized by the OP were not Federal.
My crack about Obama supporters is illustrated by your post, assuming you support Obama. I posted in response to the OP and you posted a reply that does not in any way reply or rebut my statement, but does contain a gem of a red herring with the "Iraq contractors" comment.
On the Dept of ED - $ 760 Billion is a HUGE amount of money, but chump change compared to the current budget. Thanks to Bush (with Kennedy) the expenditures were over $ 1.2B in 2007 and projected at $ 1.3 B for 2008. One of the many policies I disagree with Bush on, BTW. If I spent that much and still had one of the worst, if not the worst, educational results in the G7, I would resign in shame.
Thank you for exposing as a lie the argument Liberals and teachers have made to me for a few years that NCLB is under funded.
I didn't mean the DofEd budget was a joke, but that the Dept itself, as illustrated by the laughable results, was a joke.
That money is better left in the states, rather than sent to DC where the bureaucrats can skim off roughly $ 520 Million for their salaries before they send it back to us. If some states invest in education, they will expand their economy, tax base, jobs and people will flock there for the policies in place. (Side note – same applies to abortion, hate crimes, etc). If not, they will preside over shrinking jobs, taxes and power.
Apologies for the long post.
Dusty - other than eventually selling his business or the equipment that he actually uses, what capital gain do you see in "Mr Rights" story? I must have missed it.
Your opinion doesn't make it a fact Dale.
Some folks believe that the federal government has a valid reason to throw money at the states designed to be used only for education.
NCLB isn't funded correctly and never has been. The Congress critters never fully funded the program for starters. I do not know one teacher that supports NCLB and I know quite a few.
The DofEd is a joke under the current administration. Hopefully that will change under the next administration.
The money wasted in Iraq is disgusting and our children's children will still be paying for that fucked up debacle that was instituted only as a means to get at Iraq's oil and dethrone Saddam. Worked out well didn't it?
Bush added $ 500 Billion and you claim NCLB is not adequately funded? Wow, just Wow! How is it possible that an ADDITIONAL $ 500 Billion can't get it done? It may not be properly run, but it damn sure has enough money.
My opinion that the money is best left in the states can be debated. The steady decline of American education under the Dept of Ed cannot be debated, it is a fact that existed long before Bush hit the White House.
Get at the oil and dethrone Saddam, you say? We've done one and we may do the other. Better performance than the Dept of Ed, IMHO. There were other reasons, but you have made up your mind and I will never change it.
It may not be properly run, but it damn sure has enough money.
Dale, if in fact the DofEd is run by idiots and the funding for NCLB is squandered at the federal level..who's fault is that?
Not the Congress critters or the states or the schools.
Very few Presidents have made education a priority, on both sides of the aisle.
We've done one and we may do the other.
Oh please...As for the debacle in Iraq, feel free to believe whatever the hell you want. Taking 7 plus years is totally fucked up to grab their oil..and they aren't going to give it up apparently is my thought on that horseshit.
Exactly my point. The Dept of Ed has been a boondoggle since it was founded and, as you said, few Presidents have made it a priority. My solution is to abolish the Dept of Ed, for practical if nto Constitutional reasons, and let the staes keep tha money for their own local uses.
Of course, that would mean the Fed would actually reduce their swallow at the trough by $ 1.3 Billion and we all know that ain't gonna happen.
Maybe we could actually put it into a Social Security fund hahahaha
It was never about the oil. We have never invaded and pillaged, which makes the US pretty unique.
re: jonah's claim about obama's tax cuts
"The Facts
Obama has said throughout the campaign that families making less than $250,000 a year will not see a tax increase. Those making less than $200,000 will get a tax cut, he says. "If you make less than a quarter of a million dollars a year, you will not see a single dime of your taxes go up," Obama said during an October 7 presidential debate in Nashville, Tennessee. "If you make $200,000 a year or less, your taxes will go down."
The campaign ad McCain refers to, titled "Defining Moment," does have a graphic appear on the screen that says, "Families making less than $200,000 get tax cut." Obama says, "If you have a job, pay taxes and make less than $200,000 a year, you'll get a tax cut," which is, again, consistent with the plan he has
laid out.
Biden was speaking Monday, October 27, in an interview with WNEP in Scranton, Pennsylvania. He said, "(An) $87 billion tax break doesn't need to go to people making an average of $1.4 million. It should go like it used to. It should go to middle class people — people making under $150,000 a year." Biden never
says that tax breaks should "only" go to such people. The Obama campaign says he was merely using that figure as an example and that the statement does not represent a change in policy.
The Verdict: False. What McCain is doing here, in part, is comparing apples and oranges. He compares two different aspects of Obama's tax plan as if they were the same. And Biden never said people making less than $150,000 are the "only" people who would get a tax cut under Obama's policies."
forgot the link!
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/29/fact-check-obama-biden-creeping-down-on-who-gets-tax-relief/
Whatever Dale..your 'out there' as far as I can tell with the idea to do away with the DofEd.
You and Tom Delay think alike..lol. Great company dude!
As for Iraq, get over it...we invaded, we destroyed and we are throwing away billions trying to woo their oil out of them and into our SUV's.
Anyone who operates a business and does not take the time to incorporate in order to separate the business's liabilities from his or her personal liabilities is too dumb to be in business to begin with. I don't care how small it is -- if it goes beyond selling Tupperware in your living room, you need to be (at the very least) an LLC. Doesn't cost much, and can save a whole lot of grief (not to mention your house, car, and the savings account) down the road. For sure the first time you add an employee you'd better go through the legal hoops required to build a firewall between yourself and the company.
Nan - If a small business incorporates, how do they borrow money? If you are unproven the lender won't let you sign as John Doe-CEO. If you sign as John Doe, you have just minled corporate and personal assets and created an opportunity for a litigator to "pierce the corporate veils" which means say "Bye Bye" to the protection. I did it by buying boatloads of insurance, which you have to have anyway and operating as a sole proprietor.
The actual protection for most LLC's and corps is that they don't have enough assets to entice an opportunistic litigator to put in the time necessary to remove your corporate protections. There ae fatter targets out there for those scumbags. (NOTE: this is NOT an indictment of all lawyers, my Dad and Uncle just happen to attorneys).
Incorporation and LLC's are not magic bulletproof shields. The instant that an officer mixes personal and coporate activity, almost unavoidable in a small business, you are at some level of risk.
I am not sure what protections you mean pertaining to employees. If they sue, you ar subject to the same risks mentioned earlier, except they prbably won't need a forensic accountant to identify the evidence that opens you to attack.
One other note on LLC's. Although they MAY protect from catastrophic liability, assuming no tort by the members, the members are still responsible, in almost all cases, for the debts of the LLC in excess of assets.
Some states do not recognize LLC's, so, for purposes of liability and litigation, they are treated as sole proprietorships or comon partnerships in those states.
"You want all the rights of citizenship and none of the responsibilities." Brilliant.
Sorry if the point was made above (didn't have time to read all the responses), but if, in fact, someone is basing firing decision on the political beliefs or voting preferences of their employees, that is, of course, highly illegal under US law.
So, do I think it's a good strategy to engage in practices which will get your company sued, thereby impacting your ability to employ ANY people? Uh, no.
I do not "hate" government. I simply do not trust it to do some things better than can be done by citizens themselves. Government has a role in our society...the founder's wrote the constitution so that goverment was limited, not non-existent. They did not want to give govt too much power and influence over our lives...which is why the Const. is based on negative liberty as Obama correctly asserted.
It is not a zero-sum game as advocates of big govt. seem to believe--just because the govt does not do something, does not mean it cannot happen through the private sector. I believe govt should stick to what is Constitutionally required. But here is the most important distinction---I am a firm believer in subsidiarity. This basically holds that any function should be kept at the lowest level of govt. possible--local, state, then fed. The Const only applies to the fed. govt. We must all keep in mind that just because the FED. govt doesn't intervene, does not necessarily mean a state govt. could not--in fact the Const. explicitly states that if the a power is not given to the fed, it goes to the states or to the people directly. It is not govt I dislike--it is big, fed govt I distrust. The closer the govt is to the people, the more their concerns can be addressed.
So, does all this mean we cannot have welfare? Medicaid? Medicare? Social Security? No. Should we? To some extent, yes. But to turn over these functions completely to the govt. scares me. Why can't social security be optional? Why does the govt think it knows how to prepare better for my retirement than I do? Why was welfare, until it was finally reformed, permitted to simply tranfer wealth to those who could and would work to those who wouldn't? I am much happier with the welfare system with a work and training requirement, than the anything goes mentality that existed previously. I am always concerned when govt feels it must do what IT thinks is best for ME.
I guess what I am trying to say is that I believe there is a middle ground between all govt run and no govt at all. But why the default setting is govt is beyond me. Everyone keeps pointing to govt regulation and lack thereof as the cause of the current crisis...well, if govt hadn't actively encouraged and almost forced banks to make loans they would not have previously, all in the name of fairness to those who were not creditworthy, their would have been nothing for the investment banks to speculate over. It is incorrect to point the finger soley at a govt. failure to actively oversee these things---govt. started it, encouraged it, looked the other way when the signs were there, then when it all crashed, said what were those people thinking. There is more than enough blame to go around--to people who took risky mortgages, to banks that approved them, to investors who gambled on them, and to govt (both parties, and multiple administrations) who watched it all, and fooled itself into thinking it was a good thing. When times were good, we all enjoyed it. Now that the bubble burst, no one will take responsibility--the govt. included.
And chew on this....without the implicit federal backing of these loans by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, it would have never happened...at least not to this extent...investors were willing to gamble on these stocks because those two agencies were backing the loans...with our money.
We keep talking about govt like it is some abstract, singular being...we are the government...we elect it, we fund it, and we deal with whatever actions it takes.
Despite all my complaints about our govt, I love it. There is no other country in the world like ours. There just isn't. We are about to have the first wartime transfer of powers since 1968 (no sitting president running). Many other countries would be in chaos. When's the last time the wars were even part of the big media discussion? How can that happen? because the people believe in the system. They may not like the govt. But they trust our process.
Reflect on how significant the election of Thomas Jefferson was--not because of him, but because of what happened--John Adams willingly gave up his power to the newly elected admin...there was no force involved. He simply followed the will of the people as expressed at the ballot box. He may have disagreed, but this was how our country was established. I think people do not realize how extraordinary that was.
And now, in less than a week, we will once again peacefully transfer the power of our govt. We can argue over what we want our govt. to be. We can disagree over the direction it will take. But we can all be confident that the people have decided. As it should be.
Social Security Optional? Are you friggin daft?
Why in the blue hell would you even think of that when people NOW are having to live on their social security because the company they worked for 20, even 30 years are tanking and their promise to provide retirement benefits are hollow, empty words?
Why would you even consider opting out of SS when your 401K is in the shitter right now and needs at least years, if not a decade to recover what it lost? If your older, as in 60 or more and want to work an additional decade or two to recoup those losses..go for it..I do not.
And further more, if perchance you become unable to work, by an accident or no fault of your own...do you relish the idea of living in a box under the bridge? Because without SS that is what would happen to you.
Jesus..what a trip that anyone would even consider that notion.
"Jesus..what a trip that anyone would even consider that notion."
This is exactly what I am talking about. The idea that a single person could possibly manage his own retirement is unthinkable. Check out the returns on SS lately? Have any clue how much money is in the so-called trust fund? Zero--cause the govt, that knows so much better than I, has spent it on other things, and said we'll pay you back later--of course, as with everything "we" is US, the taxpayer.
SS Disability is a whole separate issue from what I am talking about (your living in a box reference).
My 401k needs years to recover? Well, yeah...and I am years away from retirement, so I got time. And I will reduce my risk as I get closer to retirement age. Shall we take a bet on which is more likely to be there when I do so--SS, unless drastic steps are taken, all of which affect your wallet one way or another, or my retirement account based on a market that will go up over that time? Why can't I assume some risk in my own life? Why does the govt need to protect me from myself?
But you still have not answered my basic question--why can't I have the OPTION to do it on my own? Why must I trust my govt to take care of me--the same govt. that tells me the money it has been collecting for years through payroll taxes was put in a special little account just for me when I hit 65?
And you skated around the points I made.
SS Disability is derived from what you paid into the SS system dude..jesus, its not rocket science. What you get on SS Disability is a direct result of what you made as an employee during your lifetime. It comes out of the same pie..Social Security.
I am glad you have time to wait for your 401k to recover, but as I said...if something horrible happened to you and your ability to earn a living wage, you would have to live on what SS paid you...unless of course you didn't pay into it. Then you would be a freeloader, using the system while not paying into it I presume because someone would have to take care of you and your needs.
Or that box under the bridge is still available. ;)
The government protects us from ourselves all the time..Christ..seatbelts, motorcycle helmets, gun laws, the list is endless..
"if something horrible happened to you and your ability to earn a living wage, you would have to live on what SS paid you..."
I don't need SS in that circumstance because I purchase short and long term disability insurance. It is available through my employer and before I worked for them, I purchased it privately. I would love to spend that money on guitars, a Harley, dinner at Bacchanalia, really good bourbon or gifts for my wife, but that would be irresponsible and foolish.
I do this because I don't think SS will be viable in 30 years. Clinton already raised the retirement age and taxed the income becasue he had a realistic grasp on the obvious inviability of the Ponzi scheme known as SS.
I am planning on SS not being there. Anyone younger than me (43) who is counting on SS should become more educated about SS and it's future.
The idea that government is the only answer is firmly ingrained into many minds.
I did not get into disability, because i was referring to retirement...unlike SS, SSD can be received at any age as long as your meet the eligiblility. It then converts to SS at retirement. Why could I not have a payroll tax solely directed to SSD, and opt out of participating in the retirement portion? WHY can't I have that CHOICE?
"The government protects us from ourselves all the time..Christ..seatbelts, motorcycle helmets, gun laws, the list is endless.."
Yes, exactly...let me assume my own risk..now, I know we'll have the argument then, well, motorcycle helmets saves lives, reduces medical/insurance costs,etc...if that is so, why no helmet law for motor vehicles? Why not ban cigarettes, rather than tax the hell out of them? that would save a whole lot more money and lives. Let's tax people who bungee jump, race cars, drink too much, jaywalk, tailgate, drive while talking on a cell, eat fast food, engage in unprotected sex, speed, skydive, and any other activity that involves any risk. Or let's just ban all activites outright...then we'll be safe, right?
Here's your misconception--by passing these laws, govt has made me safer, when in fact all it has done has criminalized behavior IT deems unacceptable--but they have done nothing to change my behavior--i can drive without a seatbelt if I so choose, so long as I am willing to accept the consequences for getting caught.
All you keep saying is the govt is my protector...what if I don't want it's protection? What if I am willing to assume responsibility for my actions? What if I am willing to say, if my retirement goes south, I will accept responsibility and act accordingly without govt. assistance? I tell you why--because the people who believe the govt should be our protectors know they could never allow that--that even if I accepted the risk, when it happened and I change my mind and now want govt. help, you folks think govt should reward that. And this is why we are in the mess we are in now---because all these people got themselves in deep, and even though they knew what they were doing, (and if they didn't, they should have, they knew the govt would step in...it's the same thing Wall Street did too---took big risks, because they knew govt. would step in. So now, people like me, who did what they were supposed to do, kept myself financially sound to the best of my ability (and I am by no means rich, gross family income is < $80k for family of 4) and yet my tax money, that you want me to hand over with a smile to help those less fortunate than me, must pay for their mistakes. I am willing to accept responsibility for my mistakes. You want the govt. to fix everyone else's.
Look, I am not saying abolish the system, or turn your back on the whole thing. I just want my govt to treat me like the adult I am and let ME decide.
One last time---why do you believe government knows better?
Jonah, you ignore the SSD argument because it makes the rest of your argument look ridiculous.
No where did I say I agree with the laws I stated. No where did I say the government is our protector. Do not add words to what I wrote. They are the last line of defense for Americans that hit on hard times..people who worked hard all their lives and find there is nothing for them to live on when they no longer work..regardless of the reasons.
One of the big things I mention and you failed to address is how companies are going under and refusing to pay retiree's the funds they were promised...many times they put their OWN money into these funds and now have nothing to fall back on...but SS. It is their only lifeline and something tells me they are glad it's there.
I believe i addressed the SSD argument in my 2:41 post. You have to qualify for SSD...you have to be deemed sufficiently disabled so as to seriously impair your ability to earn an income. SS you get for turning 65...no questions asked, whether you need it or not. I would agree to pay a smaller payroll tax for SSD protection, or as another person noted, purchase my own Long term/Shot Term Disability policy---but again...allow me the CHOICE.
I added nothing to you pointing out how the govt protects us, however, I find it odd that you point out all the ways the govt does so, yet disagree with them...do I take this to mean you agree that govt does not need to be our protector all the time? If so, why would you use the fact that it does as an argument in favor of your view that govt should force us to be protected by it. As for whther you said the govt is our protector, your quote says the govt protects us from ourselves...is that not a protector?
As for the failure of pensions. What you fail to mention is the pension guaranty fund that govt. requires businesses to pay into for just such a case as you describe. Before you attempt to nail me for hypocrisy, saying that now I favor govt intervention, if you go back to my first post, you will see I have not argued for NO govt involvement. Here is a case where govt has a role. If a business chooses to employ a defined benefit retirement system, the govt attempts to ameliorate the risk of such a fund going insolvent by creating an emergency fund, and (From the PBGC website) its "financing comes from insurance premiums paid by companies whose plans we protect, from our investments, from the assets of pension plans that we take over as trustee, and from recoveries from the companies formerly responsible for the plans, but not from taxes."
I like those last 4 words especially.
So you see, here we have a govt system in place to act as a safety net, not a retirement plan, funded by those engaging in the risky practice (businesses using a pension system). A business could use a defined contribution system, (401k) and not have to worry about PBGC contributions...in short, they have a CHOICE, which you deny me when you want the govt to force my participation in plans and actions IT deems proper and good for me.
LOL...you just want to pick and choose which government protection you get to avail yourself of...
Nice.. nuff said dude. ;p
Dusty said "No where did I say the government is our protector. Do not add words to what I wrote. "
Elsewhere in this thread, Dusty also said;
- The government protects us from ourselves all the time
- also mentioned the military, which is charged with protecting us.
Adding wordsw to your post are not necessary. :-)
Um Dale, sweetie...
I used the word only after Jonah did in his previous comment..I was replying to his use of it.
Now take a deep breath and get off my ass ok? Thanks! ;p
Sorry, I guess I should follow your lead and not read the post carefully before replying.
Oh and "sweetie" you jumped on my ass, so feel free to exit it at any time, as well.
I did not 'jump' you today and my reply was to Jonah and his comments. Evidently your bored or need something or someone to go after...which is it? ;)
Have a great day Dale! We can see the weekend from here ya know. Feel free to go looking for it! ;p
"LOL...you just want to pick and choose which government protection you get to avail yourself of"
YES, YES, YES....I want my CHOICE!!!
See, you got my point!!!
But, I did not say I want to take without giving---I do not want to participate in SS retirement, unless I pay into the system...given the CHOICE, I will handle myself. And I would expect my govt. to turn me down if I changed my mind when I turn 65.
That's all I'm asking for. That, and for those programs that are necessary, but I do not foresee taking advantage of (e.g., welfare, which I do see a necessity for) I am willing to pay my share...but I desire my govt be responsible with those programs (as in previous example, no endless benefits, expectation that recipients make an effort to get work/training).
So yes I would like to pick and choose---is that really so bad?
No Jonah it isn't bad to want to pick and choose which governmental protections you use. But I just think it's not a good idea. But that's my humble yet vocal opinion and of course your entitled to yours as well.
Thank you for an engaging discussion. ;) Take care Jonah. Off for a medical procedure I am not looking forward to one iota.
Oh my, good luck to you. It was an enjoyable discussion for me as well.
Who said anything about "today"?
Interesting that you respond to my comments yet I am the one who is "bored or need something or someone to go after...which is it? ;)" distract and deflect.....
That foggy fence photo is amazing.
WOW what a thread.
Great work everyone. And one terrific post, DCup!
I think I will be throwing many of your talking points into smug, pro-McCain faces in the next few days.
LOL!!!! Brilliant...
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