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Sunday, November 23, 2008

Slipping Over the Edge


Our family has been tiptoeing along the razor's edge of personal financial failure for quite a while now. We've tried many different methods for getting our financial situation in order, including a debt management plan through the Consumer Credit Counseling Service, increasing our income with a second job for me, and severely paring back any variable expenses.

A search of the blog shows that I've written many a post about our personal financial situation, especially how it relates to the larger economy. I don't think we are so different from many American families when it comes to the mess we've gotten ourselves into. We've been living for many years now on expected income. When I changed jobs earlier last spring, I ended up with a $12,000 annual pay cut. Boneheaded? Well, of course, but I needed a job in this faltering economy and that was the job I could find. It promises a higher salary in the long run, but for now, I must live with the dollars I earn.

We were already on a path to disaster. The pay cut was just the final straw.

In a three-part series, I wrote about the reasons why we can no longer pay all the bills we owe (Part 1, Part 2, Part 3). In the process of writing those pieces, I was able to take a step back and consider, realistically, our options.

As with any journey along the razor's edge, one slips and recovers. We've done this many times and with each recovery, we've breathed a sigh of relief. Finally. This would be the answer. We would pull out of this and move away from the edge. Each time, we were wrong.

Last week, we finally slipped over the edge. We faced the reality that no fix is going to pull us off the edge and so we let ourselves go over. We'll have the next few months to figure out how badly we've been sliced up, but for now, we have some very immediate concerns.

By signing Chapter 13 bankruptcy papers last week, we entered into a legal agreement to do the following:

(1) Pay our unsecured debt in full (100%)
(2) Surrender my little white car
(3) Surrender our house

Notice, however, that we have not asked for a bailout. Why bother? Hell, we couldn't even qualify for a Chapter 7 which would have wiped out our credit card debt and allowed us to stay in our house. The county where we live has a very low median income used for the bankruptcy means test and funny as it sounds, we make too much money to qualify. We're the classic case of once you fall behind, you can't get caught up.

To be honest with you, signing those legal papers was a bit freeing. The big, scary decision is made and now we deal with the fall out of that. Though we're still tied to the past (credit destroyed, five years of payments to cover the debt and lawyer's fees), we can now make better choices and move on. The hemorrhaging of piled on debt in the form of fees and interest is stopped. We'll be out from under an upside down mortgage and car payment.

I asked MathMan if he felt ashamed to be in this situation.

"No. We didn't have any choices left," came his clear response after much consideration.

He's right. The choices were made before. Through our own mismanagement and a couple of bad breaks, we got ourselves into this mire. Now we learn from those mistakes and start over.

69 Erect Nipples:

Anonymous said...

Don't worry! Obama's new tax policy is coming to the rescue. Your boss will soon be paying higher taxes so that you can collect a bigger unemployment check!

You'll be coming out of Chapter 13 in no time.

FranIAm said...

Oh my heart to you. It is by the slimmest of circumstances that I did not end up where you are. And we live on our own edge over here, a precarious balance.

My heart to you always. And my money if I had any!

Dr. Monkey Von Monkerstein said...

Good luck my friends, it a shame that we live in a country that won't let greedy pigs like AIG fail but we do let hard working people like you and Mathman fail all the time. If you need a place to stay come see us, we just got a guest bed for the downsatirs bedroom so we've got room.

Dr. Monkey Von Monkerstein said...

And that first commenter can kiss my simian ass.

DCup said...

Anon - Wow. I don't know which is more telling about you. The fact that you would be such an asshole without signing your name or the fact that you don't seem to understand a fucking thing.

Don' bother coming back to answer. All further comments from you will be deleted.

Fran - Yeah, we're definitely not alone in this. The numbers of bankruptcies are steadily increasing. But hey! those lucky credit card companies will get what they paid for when they wrote the bankruptcy bill a few years ago.

I'm glad you continue to hang on!

DCup said...

Thanks, Dr. MVM! Yeah, where's our bailout?

Jennifer said...

Boy. 2008 is just going out with a bang, all across the board.

Change you can believe in, I guess.

(Except for asshole-y Internet commenters. I guess that never changes.)

*Hugs* to you all.

Mauigirl said...

Oh DCup, I'm so sorry to hear this! I hope the changes won't be too disruptive to your kids and that you and Mathman will be OK. I know how hard this must be but you're right, at some point it is relieving to make a decision.

It really sucks that you have to give up your house and car (don't you need it to get to work??) and that you can't do Chapter 7. It's true, this country only helps those who are completely indigent and fails the hard-working families like yourselves.

I had to help my mother declare bankruptcy a few years ago; she and my dad had run up a lot of credit card debt plus nursing home fees (before he died) and they already had a reverse mortgage on their house so had no assets to pay it with. But back then they would let you do Chapter 7 so her debts were erased. Plus of course at her age she didn't need to worry about her credit rating.

I wish you and Mathman the best; I'm sure you'll be out of this very soon.

Geoffrey Kruse-Safford said...

On the one hand, many good thoughts and hugs to you and yours. On the other hand, why should either of you feel bad? All of us are dancing along that very same razor right now, wondering when we will finally take the plunge into the abyss. Sometimes I think it would be better if we did a preemptive bankruptcy and saved ourselves the stress and sleepless days (or nights).

These are perilous times for everyone. I will continue to be thinking of you in the days ahead.

Oh, and anonymous? Fuck off.

Matty Boy said...

I filed for bankruptcy back in the beginning of the 1990's. I didn't have as much to lose as you folks did. I hope things work out for the best.

pidomon said...

my best to you and mathman

Lisa said...

I'm so sorry to hear this. You guys are strong and smart and as you said, there is a certain amount of freedom in this. I don't see any shame in dealing with a hard situation head-on. And not to Pollyanna this, but I hope this works favorably for the Dancer in getting financial aid for school - I have to assume it will.

Anonymous is a cowardly douche.

Mathman6293 said...

Thanks for the kind comments from most of you. We do have to do what is necessary and responsible. We must do what we can to make our family viable and productive and successful in the future to come. And the truth is you must have your finances in order: Step 1.

Kulkuri said...

I hope things turn around for you and mathman. Funny how things are rigged against the average person, you make too much but don't owe enough.
Everyone is too easy on anonymous, who gets his/her jollies leaving snide assine remarks.

Dr. Zaius said...

Oh, dear. I haven't read that far yet. I'm still on chapter four!

(I'm sure that it will all work out for you. Take care.)

Boxer rebel said...

I am sorry to hear about this. I know it has been hard year for you and Mathman. I hope this allows you to get a fresh start and you can get yourself financially healthy again. Plus as Lisa (other Lisa) said it can't hurt for Dancer and college loans I would guess.

susan said...

I hope better days come soon for all of you. The changes in the personal bankruptcy laws were dictated by the bankers - the very same people the government has been bailing out these past few months. While the executives of the automotive industry had to appear before Congress in person the financial industry has been represented directly by Hank Paulson and Ben Bernanke. This is not the way to run a recovery program on any level. Please don't allow yourselves to feel guilty for a system you had no voice in arranging.

Nan said...

Sorry to hear this. The S.O. and I have come close to slipping over the precipice a time or two (or three or four) so I do empathize.

Dusty said...

You are giving up the house?

I am weeping over this news. It kills me to know that your mortgage company won't work to keep your family in the house.

Such fucking horseshit.

As for the troll at the top..spineless fuck that he is..consider the source..some pissed off rightwing nutjob.

Geoffrey Kruse-Safford said...

Susan's comment above is an important point to remember. They changed the rules of the game a few years ago. Now, however, finding themselves in little different circumstances from millions of their customers (living on borrowed money, discovering their assets are worthless), and are seeking help from Papa Sam. You and yours, and most of the rest of us, however, are told to go hang, suck it up and deal, etc., etc. Of course, the situation is complicated by the fact that is our big banks really do tank, the whole thing goes crumbling down, and we on the bottom get buried under the rubble. Yet, it is nevertheless true that consumer bankruptcy laws and standards are far different, and more onerous, than they were a decade ago.

As someone I know said recently, "I got screwed and I didn't even like it!"

Missy said...

(pained) Oh Man!

I hate that good people are getting spanked like this.

We're probably next. Still tottering on the edge. I suppose we can manage to hold out a few more months at the most. It might be enough time for new rules to come in and change the game, it might not.

The question is how long can my husband continue to run his business without credit and with minimal money coming in?

My vehicle was repo'd in June and I've taken over my oldest son's 20 year old piece-of-shit-Audi that sounds like it's going to explode every time I drive it.

Tengrain said...

I'm so sorry to hear about this. And you are right, the system is stacked against us.

That said, you are doing the right thing, and you both have a good attitude about it. I don't want to sound Pollyanna-ish about it, but you might find a silver lining out of all this once you get to focus on the essentials.

Keeping you both in my thoughts,

Tengrain

Annie said...

Like so many here, I am sending good thoughts in the direction of you and yours. I too am considering such a move. Frightening times.

giggles said...

Well, I figured it wasn't divorce papers you were signing, this was my next guess... And as I learned through another blog (((D&MM))).
You and yours are in my thoughts and prayers... Everyone else has said all that I would have... I am just gonna use uglier words...It fuckin sucks....What is wrong with this country.... I think we need a revolution??!!

And since I am in the financial services industry and barely hanging on myself, I have been telling myself and my clients a coupla things, cliche though they are.... "This too shall pass..." "It is always darkest before the dawn." (On a good day I believe these things.... on a bad day I just wanna go back to bed.....) So keep hangin on.... And Iagree with MM.... I like him more and more...!!!

HelenWheels said...

DCup, I am so sorry to hear this. What terrible news, and how bravely you are facing it is truly inspiring. I've had a rotten few years but since I'm single with no kids I feel like your situation is much scarier.

Geez. I'm so sorry to hear this, especially before the holidaze. Somehow I don't think they are going to be very festive this year.

Damn... thanks for sharing and, yeah, anonymous troll is a fucking asshole.

Ed said...

I'm so sorry to hear about this.

You've made statements to the effect that it's your own fault, and I don't want to discount the fact that you're taking responsibility for your own situation, but I also believe that this country has seen decades of policies designed to consolidate rather than spread the wealth, and this is where those policies lead. It's not right.

I wish you and your family the best, and also wish I could help, but, unfortunately, we're not too far from the same situation, ourselves.

(((Hugs)))

QuakerDave said...

Not that it'll pay the bills, but we'll be holding you and yours ij the Light here.

As for your troll, no amount of Light-holding can cure some people's stupidity.

No wonder he chose to be anonymous. Who would admit to being such an insensitive, thoughtless, ignorant person.

(I'm trying hard not to say "shithead.")

Shame on you, whoever you are.

quakerdave said...

*in*, not "ij"

I was upset there...

HelenWheels said...

Just to touch upon what QuakerDave said, I was thinking about the blame here, and I just don't see how you can blame yourselves. Remember how easy it was for our parents compared to what we're up against now? It's crazy! Mine had no easy time of it, but we had a big house, affordable education, and speaking of said house, it was pretty huge but it cost half as much as a Lincoln Navigator and they were able to raise 8 kids in it!!

My dad made about 10K less than I do annually now... back in the freakin' 70's, and I live in an apartment! Well, granted, I am in LA and they are in a small(ish) town in Illinois. Still, it tells you how we have come into an economy in which the odds are against nearly all of us. There IS an attack on the middle class. That being said, how can any blame be put on people who did their best and have always been hard-working taxpayers?

Sorry, I blame the mismanagement of our gov't for the past 30 years and most importantly, the last 8, for the shitty situations you and other folks are finding themselves in.

*end of righteous indignant rant*

Freida Bee said...

Sadly, Mr. Bee and I are only not in your very position right now, because we saparated for a few months three years ago when we were on the verge of getting a loan we couldn't really afford to buy a house. I hate paying someone else's mortgage in the form of rent, and, sure, there's plenty of minor debt that we have nearly allowed to fall off our credit reports by now, but we all cash and pre-paid credit cards (not even bank accounts) right now though we scrape change here and there, it does feel good not to be stacking up the interest. (Oh, I'll not mention the student loans I'm acruing right now, though.)

Steve Emery said...

DCup and Mathman - I was wondering if that was what that verbal day sketch was about on the "other" blog... I am so sorry you had to do this - but I can feel the relief from the tension in your words. No more tottering.

We will all be thinking of you and praying for you as you continue the journey you've started. We know you'll keep us all up to date. I hope where you end up living next (I assume you'll be moving) is good for all five of you. It must be hard to think about leaving your house... I imagine it's the hardest part of this, though the car must have hurt, too.

themom said...

You and MathMan seem to be well grounded, and like all have said before...you have nothing to be ashamed of. Many, many years ago, the "B" word was a whispered no-no. In the past 30-40 years, the market and lifestyles have changed drastically.

I remember our first home cost $10,500 and we bought a Bronco costing $15,000...I felt we should be sleeping in the more costly item, life made no sense at all then. (My husband talked me into the damn shack - grrr.) But things have changed since then.

If I could erase all my credit card debt I would be on easy street - maybe another year. Chin up!

Mountjoy said...

Wow. You guys really have seen 2008 as an annus horribilus.

2009 is around the corner. Hold on, the ride must get smoother, soon.

Mnmom said...

Sister, I am RIGHT THERE WITH YOU!! We'll be filing very soon. Watch my blog for our story - very similar to yours. We both deserve a bail-out.

Utah Savage said...

I filed chapter 7 days before the law changed, and it was the credit card holding banks that lobbied that piece of shit legislation through the republican controlled congress. I was very lucky. In chapter 7 they let you keep a car and a house.

As for the revolution, I think we are hoping we voted for it. If we don't get the change we can believe in, I'm betting we'll have it for real.

Filing for bankruptsy, no mater which chapter it is, is incredibly painful. I felt like such a failure, but it was my mother's illness and having to take care of her 24/7 that did me in. If I had not gone under then, I would be going under now.

You have so many people out here who really do love you. If we could live on love you'd be on easy street.

Roger Bell said...

I'm been at the edge of bankruptcy before myself. I have a friend who has filled for bankruptcy twice, most recently this year. Another couple filed last year.

Life is full of ups and downs. No one to blame. You've played by the rules and still can't make it. No shame in that.

I wish you the best in your struggle at this time. I know it is heartbreaking to go through. Hang in there, help is on the way. We now have elected the smart people to run Washington.

Wendy said...

I'm so sorry to hear it, but in a way it's probably good to now know what's going to happen, instead of constantly worrying and wondering about the what-ifs. I wish you the best.

kirby said...

That's a tough ticket. I wish you well.

Miss Kate said...

I am so sorry to hear your news. I know how sick I felt when I could no longer pay my monthly payment to CCCS, and that was just me at that point. I would imagine it's 4X as scary for you.

Damn.

The most redonkulous thing about Ch 7 is the not keeping the house and the car. Because, yeah. Not enough of a glut of those two things on the market right now.

You are brave to be honest with all of us, so thank you for sharing.

Pagan Sphinx said...

I'm quite certain that CR and I would have had to do the same. We happened to split up at a time when selling a house was still possible and we had some equity we cashed in on when we sold it.

If we had gone under, we would not have been able to take out loans to help our kids get through college. There is no way they could handle the debt on their own without some help from us. Even with grants and loans of their own. It's outrageous. I hope that Obama's promise that every American who wants to receive higher education will be able to have access to it. But it sounds like a tall order, given how things are going. Maybe it will happen in time for you. By the time a plan like that kicks in, our kids will be done with their undergrad degrees.

I'm relieved for you, regardless. I can imagine feeling exactly how you're feeling. You did what you had to do. You did the best you could. You'll move on and things will change for you eventually. Meanwhile, you can breathe a bit.

Best wishes for you all.

Gina

Ranger Bob said...

Well, shit- that sucks. Lots of thoughts heading your way, plus bokoo indignation broadcasting in other directions.

anita said...

oh my. i am SO sorry to hear this. like dusty said: it's HORSESHIT. utterly unbelievable the point to which this country has become.

all i can tell you is that my thoughts are with you, and for what it's worth, you two --- dcup and mathman --- are SO very strong. that strength just filters through every word, every line, every post of your amazing blogs.

you WILL survive.

Rastamick61 said...

Girl I am about one bad sunburn behind you. We just dropped 500 on a car repair same one we had repaired in August instead of camping in maine for 1100. It still has a loud muffler and a drivers window held up by a screwdriver. Our kids missed their report cards for shortage of tuition funds. The judgements are in a pile in the cupboard. Ashamed my ass, no f-ing way people need to be ashamed at this point, we;ve had fucking war declared on us since 2000. My feeling is we could all be more careful with our money but it should not be this f-ing hard, not in this country in 2008. Hang on tight to the ones around you, what else is there really ?

pissed in NYC said...

Sending my best wishes to you both. There is something wrong when two people work hard to provide a home for themselves and their kids and they get no support from their government (is it ours?), but greedy motherfucking bankers can go to the government and empty the coffers. It's just wrong. And you did the best that you could. Nothing to be ashamed of at all.

Chris in Seattle said...

We did a 13 a few years ago. Never got so damn many offers for credit cards. damn near averaged one a day. Creditors only came after us for about 40% of our debt; amazing how lazy they seem to be when it really comes down to it. I think we were done in 2 1/2 years. Student loans don't go away though, and our lawyer was a lazy ass and didn't get them included in the payment schedule; they've worked with us well since though.

Bankruptcy just doesn't seem to have the stigma it used to. We were able to get a new car a year or two after we were finished. The economy sucks so badly, they'll gamble on anyone who walks in the door. The worst part of it all is the process: Letting them crawl up for financial asshole with a scope and look at every dollar you've spent. They like to pick at one or two expenses too. With us it was how much we spent on smokes, like they were going to demand we quit.

If I were you, my question to the court would be, "So are you going to give me rides to work and all the kids' school functions?"

BAC said...

DCup and MM so sorry to hear this ... I know you have been trying to work everything out, but the deck is stacked against the hard-working types and in favor of the CEO's who take a private jet to DC to ask for their bailout -- something I file under "things that make me crazy!" Call me if I can be of any help.


BAC

Magdalene6127 said...

DCup, so sorry about this. (((D & MM)))

betty slocombe said...

That's awful: but I know you'll be ok because you are so righteous, and generous - if my life were going down the shitter I don't know if I'd be getting around leaving generous lovely comments on more fortunate souls' blogs. Stay strong, lovely family.

Comrade E.B. Misfit said...

I am so sorry to hear this.

(My dad was right: Fuck the banks.)

Some Goofy Woman said...

*clinks a glass* Fresh start. Not fresh step, that's a kitty litter.

-AD

Comrade Kevin said...

Here's hoping that you are headed towards a period of stable finances.

If my father hadn't have been as OCD as he was about bills when I was a teenager, we might have had to declare bankruptcy. I feel awful about the reasons why that would have been an option---I was sick and my medical bills were always supremely expensive.

Linda Sama said...

so sorry, DCup. but I wish you a peaceful heart and heartful peace.

Gene said...

Your honest appraisal of your situation shows a high degree of maturity. You aren't blaming anyone and are willing to accept the consequences. I wish the big boys on Wall Street and in charge of Banking had your chutzpah. God bless you and your family.

Liberality said...

wow, look at all these comments and at all the support you are getting! I read this yesterday and blogger wouldn't let me comment for some weird reason but yeah, what they all said, except for that first asshole of course.

2009 has just got to be better for both you and MM and family and for this nation.

Mary Beth said...

New here. Hate this for you. Hang in there.

dguzman said...

Ouch, DCup. I've been there, minus losing the house--it IS freeing. And as long as you can stick with making the BK payments (that's lawyerspeak for bankruptcy, not the Magic Burger King), you will get out of debt. And THAT will be a sweet day, believe me!

I'm sorry you're losing the house and car; it's gonna be tough, but we're all behind you.

I just had to pick up a second job to pay for the car/gas/insurance. The miracles of the Bush economy never cease.

Distributorcap said...

again late --- working too hard -- you dont know how bad i feel for you -- but you have to not blame yourselves and realize you are doing the right thing to get on the road again........

there are very few words anyone can say to ease your troubles -- but there are a lot of people out here who care -- like me

Joe said...

Really sorry to hear this, ma'am. Eight years of Fuck the Poor Economics (poor being anyone not rich enough for a private jet) have left the vast majority of us in America with fewer really good options to improve our situations. Keep your chin up and your middle finger at the ready.

Sue J said...

Oh, DCup, I am so sorry to hear about this stress in your life, but so glad that you are both holding your heads up high, knowing that being in this situation is not in any way a reflection on you or your values.

You are good people. That's obvious from all the comments left here!

And sign me up on the list of people here thinking "there but for the grace of God ...," understanding completely about that dance on the razor's edge.

linda said...

I haven't read your blog for very long, but you are such a wonderful writer, I feel like you live next door....and as if you did, my heart goes out to you....

Ed said...

I've been thinking about you a lot and, even though I'm not a Quaker, I subscribe to some of the Quaker philosophy. So as Quaker Dave said, I'm holding you in the light.

I just heard today that yet another friend of mine lost her job and was replaced by someone at a fraction of her salary. That's pretty much what happened to me, too - laid off and replaced by someone at half what I was earning. It's like an epidemic.

I don't know what the future holds for any of us, but I hope that you and your family, as well as all the others with similar struggles, get through it okay.

The Cunning Runt said...

Lisa, I'm so sorry to hear this. It's so easy to imagine being there - one bad break could push most of us over the edge.

How jaw-droppingly wrong is it that those usury bastards at the credit card companies (the ones charging us 29% interest) can say, "Oh, wait, can we be a bank now? 'Cause we want some of those Taxpayers' Billions George is handing out!"

And meanwhile, decent Americans are losing their homes.

You'll be back though, You Two. Go slowly enough to get plenty of help for your kids' college tuitions, and you may get to see this as a fortunate thing!

Best of luck to you.

Demeur said...

I went through nearly the same thing back in the early 80s. If you get motivated enough pop over to my blog and go through the archives. I've posted in the past about how to get a good grip on finances. I'm not rich but I did learn quite a bit from those who are. My place is paid for. I have no car payments or credit card bills. I did this in about 10 years. If I can help you guys with advice just give a yell.

kkryno said...

Anonymous; you forgot about the "There but for the Grace of God go I" part. Whether you believe in God or not there is the aspect of Karma, or Cause and Effect. Be very careful of being smug or assuming superiority. It'll bite you in the ass; my FRIEND!

DCup and Mathman; I'm keeping you and your family in my heart. I know how you've struggled and worked to make it all work. I've been there before and I know how it feels. As it is, we are hanging in by our fingernails; so...It breaks my heart that you are are loosing your lovely home. :( Please know that I am sad about that.

Too bad we aren't all named Citi-Corp!

Anonymous said...

How many of you boght stock in Freddie and Fannie when their stock was hot in August, when Barney Frank hawked it.

Well, here's a game that will bring back memries of this missed opportunity to get rich: http://vodpod.com/watch/1025131-obamonopoly .

False Messiahs just get my goat, even if they don't get my Cash.

Llort

MLight said...

I'm very sorry to hear this, especially after you've been working so hard to keep it from happening.

{{{{{{{{{{{{}}}}}}}}}}'s.

DED said...

My original comment seems to have disappeared so I'll write it again (albeit succinctly): Best of luck to you guys.

Suzy said...

Like Tom Paxton said back in the eighties -- "I'm changing my name to Chrysler!"

Holding you all in the light.

Patrick O'Grady said...

Damn, y'all,

I haven't been by to visit for a while, and just learned of the latest kick in your family seat. A tip of the Mad Dog propeller beanie to you and yours, with best wishes for better things.

Meantime, keep kicking, biting, gouging and scratching, because your status in Hell is determined by the number of enemies you take with you when you go.

We're consistently about a paycheck away from disaster here in Bibleburg, Colorado; a late one from one of my employers recently put us into the dread line of credit with our bank, and we're finally just about dug out — just in time for Black Friday! Needless to say, buying shiny toys for each other (no kids) will not be high on the list of things to do.

Instead, I think I'll buy a big-ass box of non-perishables and haul it down to the local food bank, see if I can gain a little ground on the old karmic debt. Ain't no fed'ul-gummint bailouts gonna erase that red ink, Sis. You and Mathman keep your chins up.